A Queer Conversation
A traditional nun and her openly gay cousin discuss sexuality and the Catholic Church
Sr. Bernadette and Paul Mages, Christmas 1989
BH: How have your perceptions of the Catholic Church changed?
PM: Well, the Catholic Church is so diverse. You have the hierarchy, which to me seems a bit out of touch, but then you have local churches, some of which seem magnificent. And then you have individuals — it’s really hard to generalize.
BH: You mentioned feeling unwelcome in the Catholic Church. Through Bernadette, do you feel a connection that maybe you hadn’t felt — with Catholicism maybe?
PM: No, I guess not profoundly because of my relationship with Bernadette. I don’t think that changed anything.
BH: Sister Bernadette, how have your perceptions of homosexuality changed since getting to know Paul and his partner on a more intimate level, friendship level — personal level?
SB: Well, it was my first close relationship with anyone who is gay, and I began to see that on the level of their feelings for each other, their relationship is similar to the feelings expressed by married couples that I know — my brothers and my sisters-in-law, friends. And I remember when I went home in January and my mother told me that she had heard that Paul had broken up and she obviously wanted more information. And I realized that this is just as sacred a relationship as anyone else and if anything’s been confided in me, it stays with me.
PM: I wrote in my Christmas card to Mary’s parents, you know, just a little bit telling them we were no longer together. But I rarely see them. I don’t have a really deep relationship with them. I mean, they’re family and I have a specific relationship with each one of them and great memories and all that. But it’s just too hard to develop a really deep, continuous relationship. Like when I was coming out, I realized that not all people, including family members, did not need to know the same amount of information.
SB: And I think I really was able to communicate to my Mom something of what I had developed in my own understanding, and that is that, “what Paul is going through you would understand because you’re married, Mom.” And it actually came out because she then said to me — after I said something about how broken up you were, and that I was really concerned — and my Mom looked at me and she said, “well, then I guess” — she said — “it’s just the same as if a married couple had broken up, isn’t it?” with, like, the most 180-degree turn in emotion that I could detect in my Mom. And I felt really, really proud, I think, that I had been able to convey to her from my own relationship that this sensitivity that we owe to my cousin Paul is really the same that we would offer to a couple who’s going through a separation or a divorce, even though we may not agree with it or condone it or understand it. Their reality is something else, regardless. In the past, my Mom has not been so understanding about people who are homosexual. And I was just very proud that I was able to somehow convey to her, without having to say it, but just in the way I myself was reacting and projecting my emotion of what I was experiencing for you and your partner and how deeply I felt for both of you as you were going through this, that she was able to get the message.
PM: It was probably like that in Jesus’ time, too. He didn’t judge, but he got to know everybody. And then others probably witnessed, “Gee, look how Jesus acts with those people. It’s not so strange after all.” Or, “Gee, that must be what it’s like.”
BH: You’ve talked a little bit about your prayer life, Paul, and how in dealing with your sexuality you prayed. I’d be interested in hearing a little more about your own spirituality.
PM: It’s hard to sum it up. I’ve never tried to put it into words. Well, I mean being Christian is the most important thing in my life. The last ten, twenty years — ever since I really started questioning things, like in college. I just figured God created us and it just seems like it should be the most important focus in my life and everything comes from God, everything’s affected by God. So I just know the way I live is important, for myself and for who witnesses how I live. You know, I believe my soul is going to transform somehow after I die and so I wanted to be in good shape to meet God in whatever state that is — body, soul, both, neither. Just spending more time kind of devoting myself to my spirituality. I just kept reinforcing it and it made more sense, and it’s just taken on a greater percentage of who I am.
BH: Is it important to you that a partner share that faith?
PM: Well I think so. My former partner was brought up Catholic, officially, but they never went to church. I don’t think he had much of a prayer life, and you know, through me I think God reached him, and I was thankful for that. And he became more spiritual, more Christian through our relationship. I think it would be difficult to be with somebody who didn’t even believe in God. I mean, I think there would have to be a kernel of common ground there to build on. But I would never rule somebody out of a relationship just because they didn’t share very, very similar beliefs.
SB: It was obvious to me that it was a priority for you to get to your church on Sunday whenever you are here, so I mean, I could tell right away that that was definitely a commitment that both of them made. They rearranged their Sunday around it. I remember you guys discussing your Sunday plans at times and it was about ‘how we’re going to get to church, and when’.
BH: It doesn’t sound like coming to terms with your sexuality was even a bump in the road in your relationship with God.
PM: Well, it was. I mean, I was hoping I wasn’t doing something wrong, and I had to come to terms with it over time. It wasn’t just one moment where I just prayed about it, got the answer, and then it was taken care of. But over time, like I was saying earlier, I just thought that if you’re with somebody in a meaningful relationship, how can God frown upon it. And how could God create all the people in the world if some of them aren’t intended and they’re mistakes and they should be corrected or have surgery or be converted? That just didn’t seem like what a loving God would do. It just kind of made sense to me that I am supposed to be this way and these relationships are approved by God.
BH: Has getting to know Sister Bernadette again sparked any different thinking in your own sexuality, in your own behavior at all? Has it changed you at all? Reconnecting to a religious sister?
PM: I’m proud to have her as a close friend and member of my extended family. My relationship with her has reinforced my belief that in the Church there are capable, purposeful human beings trying to act in as holy a way as possible.
BH: Has it changed you, Sister Bernadette, in regards to Paul?
SB: It’s changed me in the sense that what had been an issue that was very clear for me, is not so clear anymore — not in terms of what the Church teaches but in terms of my own understanding, I guess, just because of how murky and messy — ‘messy’ is not really the right word — how mysterious, I think is the better word to use. I don’t have access to all of the experience for me to even figure it out, I guess. So I’m willing to just let it go. I’m willing to really believe, like I said, that God is a father. And He’s working out with each one of us our salvation. And going back to the fact that each of us is extremely wounded and broken, you know, regardless of the life that we profess or live. And I think I’m a lot more ready to leave it in His hands rather than try to correct someone.
BH: Paul, some people reading this might find this pairing — a gay man and a traditional religious sister — somewhat odd, although you clearly don’t. Is there anything you think people need to understand?
PM: Well, one thing might be: once you’ve been judged I think it’s a lot easier to not judge in the future.
BH: Really? So you don’t feel judgment toward family members who judge you? Your feeling is not anger, necessarily?
— Paul
“What had been an issue that was very clear for me, is not so clear anymore… I’m willing to really believe… that God is a father. And He’s working out with each one of us our salvation. And… each of us is extremely wounded and broken, you know, regardless of the life that we profess or live. And I think I’m a lot more ready to leave it in His hands rather than try to correct someone.”
— Sister Bernadette
PM: No, I think they just don’t understand. Maybe they have no first-hand experience with being judged. I just know I’m very careful now, and when you, Sister Bernadette, were speaking earlier about your reactions I thought maybe you were referring to what I think of when I — somebody does something and I, you know, I think a racist comment or, you know, anything against some person because of what they look like, what they say or what they do, and I have to quickly correct myself and say, ‘Wait a minute, I don’t like when people do that to me.’
BH: Well you must make judgments in life.
PM: Well, I make judgments but I don’t want to judge people. I mean, certain actions seem to me to be appropriate/inappropriate. But I’m not God, I’m not the judger.
BH: So once you’ve been judged in your life —
PM: I think it gives you a different insight. If you’ve never had any kind of difficulty in that way to deal with — you know, it’s easy to just sit and say, “You’re wrong. You’re not white. You’re not male. You’re not rich. You’re not this. But once you’ve had to be on the other side and feel like somebody’s judging you; I don’t know, it just made me more humble.
BH: Has that changed your relationship to the rest of the world?
PM: Well, I guess a bit. Sure. I want to be of service to others. Yeah, I look for opportunities to get involved that way. I have a new attitude toward the homeless. It’s one group that I just really, I just really feel like I really want to help them in some profound way, somehow, sometime.
BH: Sister Bernadette? One thing you’d like to let people know?
SB: I guess the message I would like to give is that our main concern should be the person. And getting to know a person — allowing a person to reveal who he or she is rather than forcing my own revelation onto a person. And in that way, I think, in a relationship of openness and acceptance, I think we have the greatest ability to grow. And if there are ways that we need to be able to grow, I think that because of the love that a person has for another person, that it creates the ground for growth to be able to take place. And to allow myself to be challenged, too. I mean, because Paul and his partner, the gift that they’ve given me, has really challenged my understanding and has left me a lot like — I thrive on being sure — and I’m a lot less thriving on that.
PM: I would just hope, you know, the Church — again, that huge entity — would be able to slowly think a little bit more like Bernadette. Trying to just assess before reacting and get to know the people you’re dealing with before judging.
Great article! I converted to Catholicism only recently, having been raised entirely without religion. I’d always lived in places where gay people generally felt safe in identifying themselves. That always struck me as just and fitting. Conscious that I was choosing churches in the middle of a culture war, I wrote off evangelical Protestantism largely because so many fundie churches took such a hard — frankly, a brutal — line against homosexuality. They seemed obsessed with pushing gays back in the closet. Although I hadn’t researched the Catholic Church’s own position very closely, the statements I’d heard coming from Catholic quarters sounded markedly mellower.
“Yeah, homosexual relations may be sinful,” Catholics seemed to say. “But there’s no call to jump on gays with hobnailed boots. We tried that with Cathars and marranos, and we’ve been apologizing for it ever since.”
Well, now that I understand the Church’s teachings better (hat tip to the boys in the black cappas, who stirred great dollops of Thomistic philosophy into my catechesis), I still think there’s a certain sophistication in it. Unlike so many of her Protestant competitors, the Church at least acknowledges that same-sex inclinations are deep-seated. No one walks into a Catholic church expecting to have his gay prayed away. To me, that’s something to build on, although I can certainly understand why Fr. Nugent wouldn’t see it that way.
A couple of months ago, at a vocational discernment retreat, I found myself paired for an Emmaus walk with an exuberant sister who would have looked perfectly at home working security at the Lilith Fair. To my feeble senses, at least, she also had Christ’s own light oozing from every pore. It seems to me — pace His Holiness — that God calls all kinds.
To Sister Bernadette and Paul, congratulations on forming such a close, honest friendship. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us.
regarding the Church’s language with respect to homosexuality …this may seem like I’m splitting hairs …one should be careful to distinquish between the acts and the individual. The Church does not condemn individuals who identify themselves as gay. And, there is a distinction between cultural responses and a Christian response. Cultural responses to an individual identifying himself as gay have adopted terms found in the Church’s teaching that would be hurtful or unwelcoming to the person.
These are sensitive issues and the Church isn’t dumb about cultural cultural shifts. I think its those, who live in today’s culture, who should read carefully what the Church teaches; otherwise the issue becomes clouded; and misconceptions do breed, in a not insignificant way, hurt feelings, damaged relationships, rejection, etc. that gays really do suffer, that are deeply felt.
Responses should be compassionate and not judgemental. This is difficult to do for some people. We’ve been taught forever that being a true disciple of Christ is difficult. We don’t get to choose how our faith is tested; we do get to choose how we respond. If we claim we are Christian, if we claim that we follow Christ Jesus, we have no other option than to respond with compassion.
I find it dangerous that someone who knows who to articulate so clearly the natural law could then discontent it from Jesus, who is the Logos or the Word behind our recognition of the natural law, who in turn commissions us to preach his truth. In the end, she was not even able to say that her cousin was doing something wrong, as she already decided for incorrect pastoral reasons not to say that his behavior was disordered.
Rather than teach her cousin basic fundamental philosophical concepts, she basically claims that he is unable to comprehend them. She thereby enters into a relationship with her cousin and his partner, which she sees no differences between that of a man and a woman, without first acknowledging that homosexual acts are always a sin, as they are intrinsically evil. She thereby becomes materially complicit with her cousin’s sin by mistakenly thinking that she would not be accepting him as a person if she were merely to acknowledge his sin.
Her mistaken kindness in type takes Jesus of the Cross, as Jesus would always affirm the worth of the individual by calling first for his repentance. I can’t believe that her cousin would renounce a soul like this if she were to witness to the truth that Jesus died for his sins so that he may achieve salvation. We all need help. This is the most important help. Rather, out of mistaken kindness, she condones his actions and effectually normalizes them thereby providing a material cause for them to continue. That may be too philosophical. But study is the surest means in making the examined life really examined.
T+
Interesting that there is a need for this article, but not an interview with a hetero couple living together outside of married (shacking up ala Dr. Laura).
Are we called upon to at a dinner tell the friend that are a sinner. NO. Is it any of our biz who is sleeping with whom or even IF they are?
This article shows a relationship that has the “love the sinner” part of the equation down. It seems to forget to “hate the sin” though.
Though I thought the article was good, I can’t help but feel that Sr. Bernadette left out the teaching of the Church… I think it is important to welcome everyone into the Church, and to not be judgmental; however, we cannot deny that homosexual acts are sinful, at least that’s what I thought the Church’s position was, and she completely ignores it.
After reading the article, while I’m glad they are able to have such a good relationship, I feel that she as a Sister is obligated morally to at least mention to her cousin the Church’s position, which should be her position as well… just so he know that while she loves him, and is not judgmental, she still abides by the Church’s law.
Also, to anyone reading this article that does not know the position of the Church, the feel of it is that there’s nothing wrong with homosexuality and that the “misunderstandings” come from an outdated language used by the Church…. and that is a very serious message to be spreading, and it’s uncharitable to mislead people that way
I believe a simple element was overlooked. The Church calls those with homeoerotic inclinations to be celibate. Sister Bernadette is not shy about her celibacy. It seems to me that Paul should take this lesson from his cousin.
As to his partner, do any of us know what passes between them? It is a matter for his confessor, not for any buttinsky.
Gore Vidal, when asked to what he attributed the length of his relationship with partner [40 years to death] replied simply: “No sex”.
What if this article were instead about a nun and her relationship with a brother who, with his wife, had elected to used the birth control pill within their marriage? Would commenters be so insistent that Sr. Bernadette condemn their practice?
Re: PhoenixRoach
Probably.
A wonderful interview. My question for those who are telling Paul that he should obey The Church’s teaching is to please keep in mind that he no longer identifies as or worships in the Catholic church, so why do you insist he is bound by their teachings?
What I don’t understand is why so many people get excited and scream about someone being gay, and yet, people eat pork. People eat others foods that the Old Testament prohibits. Is anyone making a fuss about adultery? People commit adultery almost everyday. It doesn’t have to be a sexual act. Do we really want to stone people who commit adultery? Slavery was acceptable in the Old Testament. The Bible prohibits the mixing of cloth. How many people wear 100% wool or 100% cotton today?
The New American Bible translates the Greek word “arsenokoitai” as “practicing homosexuals.” The concept of practicing homosexuals is something that the Catholic Church created in the 1970s. This distinction is not found in the first- century writings. Also the Greek word “arseno”refers to men or males. It doesn’t say anything about women.
I think people need to research what the Bible really says. This may mean some language study, look at why the chapter book was written, who wrote it, and examine the the changes in key words over the years.
I do not see being gay as a sin, but I do know that we are all sinners. My Bible tells me not to “judge” others. In my opinion, whether one is trying to distinguish beween the person or the act, one is still making a judgment. And judging others is sinful!
Having a son that i homosexual I feel very stongly about this. I knew when he was very young that he was not a hetrosexual. The funny part of our relationship is the is that he was angry with me for not telling him he was gay…. I countered with …. I thought you should tell me….. what if I had been wrong. We both laugh about it still…
I realize this isn’t a discussion board, but reading all these thoughtful comments made me want to add something.
A few weeks ago, Tony Blair advised Pope Benedict to soften the Church’s position on homosexuality. Not only would it be humane, he argued, it would make Church teaching more palatable for laid-back, non-judgmental, left-ish, educated people — that is, for people like him.
Well, speaking as a native of that social estate (and as someone who wouldn’t himself mind seeing the Church ease up on gayness, somehow), I’m surprised that any world leader should be so insular. Laid-back, non-judgmental, left-ish educaetd people may make up a slender majority in Western countries, but outside of that bubble, our opinions don’t amount to a hill of beans.
For anyone trying to run a universal Church, this is important to bear in mind. Unless I’m mistaken, the Church is growing fastest in the sort of backwaters where neither I nor Tony would ever dream of vacationing. In West Africa, for example, people worry as much about gay rights as they do about snowstorms. Our chief competitors, Sarah Palin-type Protestantism and Osama bin Laden-type Islam, aren’t exactly known for their warm and fuzzy gay outreach ministries.
By contrast, the Episcopalian Church of the U.S.A. has been crumbling from the inside ever since it ordained an openly gay bishop. Conservative Episcopalians, who had held fast to their faith despite rules allowing priests to perform same-sex unions, have finally had enough. Many are fleeing to the more traditional Anglican Communion of the Southern Cone. (Yes, that’s right: old-school Episcopalians are begging Ugandans to give them their marching orders; this is serious.) Others, if you can believe it, are coming back to Rome, which has probably but a big smirk on St. Thomas More’s face.
My point is not that Church doctrine should be determined by popular ballot, or adjusted to meet some perceived marketing need. I mean only to suggest that guys like me and Tony Blair, who take such pride in our rational, modern, non-cavemanish thinking, ought to forgive the Church for not catching up with us. We may be hip, but she’s universal and eternal.
Thank you so much for this article. I am also a recent convert, understand the Church’s teachings about homosexuality, but have been struggling because I have a close family member who is gay. It is nice to see a Catholic, particularly in a religious community, who is maintaining a friendship with a gay person.
Like Sr Bernadette, I am a religious sister in a traditional congregation, facing a similar situation, only in my case, the gay family member is my sister. I entered the convent when she was in first grade, so our relationship is somewhat distant. In addition, I am aware of psychological aspects to my sister’s affective needs that no amount of preaching could possibly help. This is not primarily a moral disorder; at least in her case. But I have wondered if I have a duty in faith to “say something” to her. Some of the comments to this post triggered a great deal of anxiety in me in that regard, so I had to reflect on the question in a more specific way.
I had the good fortune to study moral theology under Fr. John Hardon, SJ. Now, I don’t have my notes any more, so I can’t be certain I learned this principle from him, but I did learn it in very orthodox surroundings, so I believe it is entirely trustworthy. The principle is that it would be wrong to burden a person’s conscience with greater responsibility than they are disposed to correspond to. For example, telling someone who doesn’t attend Mass regularly that missing Mass is a mortal sin when that person is unaware of that, yet not disposed to change their ways–you’d be, in effect, endangering their spiritual welfare more, not helping lead them to grace. It’s all in the ability of the person to receive the truth in grace.
As a religious sister, I am ready to share the beautiful truth of the Church’s teachings on human love in the divine plan with those who are disposed to hear it. But with those who are not, I treat this the way the early Church treated the mystery of the Eucharist: the truth of the Eucharist was reserved for those who were ready to actually receive Communion. And those who were drawn by grace to the Eucharist walked a long pathway of initiation that prepared them to fruitfully receive that Blessed Sacrament. Telling someone who is already confused, hurt and alienated from the Church that they are in a situation of objective sin is only adding fuel to a fire that is burning against the great good that we have in Catholic teachings on human love. We need to draw people to a great good, and how one does that is going to depend greatly on the persons in question.
Speaking for myself (and knowing the gifts I do and do not have), it seems to me that in the case of my sister and other persons who are struggling with same-sex attraction, I follow Jesus first of all by receiving them as children of God, loved here and now. (As someone who lives celibately, it comes somewhat naturally for me not to dwell on the sexual details that may or may not be part of their life…) As the relationship develops, and as I pray for these people by name, I trust God’s grace to lead them to desire something “more”; to desire a deeper life of communion with the Church; to be drawn to a more pure way of loving. And I am ready to help them find that.
I also highly recommend Courage, a wonderful fellowship of holiness and support for people with same-sex attraction who make use of all the spiritual means the Church offers to grow in holiness and chastity. I love that friendship and the recognition of everyone’s need for human love is central to Courage’s approach.
This is one smart Sister. I think when the Church says unnatural it means that they don’t quite understand it yet, but we’re understanding more and more that you are indeed born gay. How would you know whether being gay is real if you are a heterosexual? Also, they say if you have “deep rooted” homosexual feelings you should be celibate and/or a priest/nun, but if God intended for his children who are gay to be celibate why would he give them those sexual feeling at all? Homosexuality isn’t just a feeling, is hetrosexuality just a feeling? A desire to share your life with a spouse? Both hetro and homosexuality are gifts from the Creator.
Yes, we are called to love the sinner, but we are also called to hate the sin! Jesus did spend time with sinners, but he also exhorted them to “sin no more”. This article is implying that the Church’s teaching on sexuality is wrong. This is supposed to be a Catholic website. It would be nice if they actually defended the Church instead of just giving in to the culture around them.
For a much better discussion of compassion for sinners, see here:
http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=33803
hello to all of you guys,
I stumbled on this great site. Am going through a dark night of the soul and it was no chance I ended up here. Look forward to reading all the info and posts.
As a reletively new Catholic, I feel that we need to pray on our feelings and stop judging people for who and what they are. We are a diverse culture and need to celebrate God’a gift of Diversity. I am gay and am in a loving relationship of 1 year. My partner is a lifelong Catholic and feels the same way I do. We have found that the offshoot Independant Catholic movement accepts and celebrates our relationship. We are all entitled to our own opinion, but we all need to try to be open to differing viewpoints and not try to shove our own down someone else’s throat. I am Parish Administrator for a small Independant Catholic Church in the Midwest and am studing for the priesthood in this church. I believe in God’s love for all, and that He created us all in His image, gay, straight, male, female… CELEBRATE!!!!!!
God’s Blessings on all who read this.
Super article. I think Sister Bernadette approach is truly loving and reverent of teaching. It’s a tough to follow the call to chastity, but it all Catholics should realize that chastity may be the best protection for sins of a sexual nature, but in no way can we hold most people to its practice.
This is a most beautiful interview. And it has been very interesting reading the various posts. I am a practicing Catholic and I would like to say this straight out for many Catholics – gay or straight – who feel the same but dare not say it: The Catholic Church’s current teaching on homosexuality is WRONG.
The Church has been wrong on very significant issues before — such as the pre-Vatican II belief that “there is no salvation outside the Church” to “there IS salvation outside the Church” — the new view held after Vatican II.
The Church forced Galileo to recant his views on the universe, and no less than Pope John Paul II apologized for this.
I am confident that the Church — in 50 years or perhaps 100 years down the road — will similarly change its teaching on homosexuality. And perhaps another pope will apologize for the way the Church has treated gays.
Does anyone read the Catechism????…
(emphasis my own)
Chapter 2 Article 6 Pg.2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, WHICH PRESENTS HOMOSEXUALITY ACTS AS ACTS OF GRAVE DEPRAVITY,140 tradition has always declared that “HOMOSEXUAL ACTS ARE INTRINSICALLY DISORDERED.”141 THEY ARE CONTRARY TO THE NATURAL LAW. THEY CLOSE4 THE SEXUAL ACT TO THE GIFT OF LIFE. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity.
(and the clincher…)
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CAN THEY BE APPROVED.
Further reading in the same paragraph:
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS ARE CALLED TO CHASTITY. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
This is our faith people. It’s not black and white. The Church (and Jesus!!!) have been teaching the SAME thing for over 2000 years. Love it or leave it.
KV,
First of all the Galileo affair was caused by Galileo’s insistance that some biblical passages should be changed, not because of Galileo’s scientific findings. Although Galileo was treated wrongly, the affair was not a doctrinal one. The church has NEVER changed a piece of doctrine and never will. Issues between certian members of the church and eclestiatical authorities is a different thing all together.
The church has upheld for 2000 years the sanctity of marriage (which can only happen between a man and a women) and sex. The church firmly teaches that although we are always to love the sinner and hate the sin, sodomy and homosexual acts are mortal (or deadly) sins and should not be encouraged by any means.
To hear it from the “horses mouth” please read Article 6 of the Cathecism of the Catholic Church paragraphs 2357-2359.
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