I agree to an extent there are problems with the Catholic Church but you cannot say that you will make changes from within on thing such as abortion, homosexuality, birth control or women priests. These are basic tenents of our faith. If these are things that you feel that strongly about then it would be right for you to leave the Catholic Church because you are not in communion with the Church. If you are upset with the music at mass or the amount of time your parish or diocese spends with the poor by all means speak up and work to change it, but what people have to realize is that the Catholic Church is a package deal when it comes to the tenents of the faith. If there are things in the Catechism that you are not sure about study and learn why we believe such a thing because once you start picking and choosing which parts of the Catechism to believe you have started making your own rules. This happend long ago in the 1500 a man was upset, and for the most part rightly so with the Catholic Church but he decided to make his own rules. That man was Martin Luther and we all know what happened next. So while I agree with your statement on the outset, there are certain things that will not change and that is why we are the Catholic Church. God Bless!!!

I don’t think we should EVER tell anyone they should leave the Church unless it’s a real excommunication. You point out Martin Luther “and look what happened”…thousands of Protestant denominations, then non-denominational Christians and so forth. One of the primary reasons Luther was fed up was that the Church was selling indulgences, a practice not in accord with Church teachings. It was done by some of the imperfect humans in high positions in the Church’s hierarchy. Luther called them out on it, they didn’t like that but instead of fixing their error and entering dialogue about his other disagreements with the Church, they sent him packing and yes, look what happened. I am by no means a “liberal” or “progressive” Catholic. Though I accept the teachings of the Church as they are (not blindly, I have thought them all through, eventually coming to the conclusion that the Church was right even on those I initially disagreed with), I think those of us who are more easily able to believe and see the truth behind the Church’s teachings are called to try to bring others in first, then try to get them to understand - NOT turn them away.

RedMagnus, what’s wrong with Opus Dei? I know some great people who are a part of it. (I’m not.)

Some rather dangerous ideas here. While abortion and birth control are not tenets of the Faith per se, they are rooted in dogma and there is no room for questioning the Church’s teaching on them. We believe in the Immaculate Conception which implies that at conception there is already a soul in need of salvation. The Immaculate Conception is a dogma of the Faith and to reject it is to excommunicate oneself. Dogmas by definition are irreformable. They are revealed Truth with God as their source. Any talk of reform must be limited to matters of law or discipline which are reformable. When you touch on the dogmas, you are playing with fire folks. If you no longer believe in what the Catholic Church teaches then you are no longer Catholic. Being on a parish roster does not make one Catholic. And to moose, the ten commandments are not the sum total of Catholic teaching. Any such belief will fit quite well into a Calvary Chapel but not the Catholic Church. Gennie, Martin Luther’s big mistake was that he did not limit himself to questioning the known abuses at the time. He went further and denied the Faith. Was his real intent to address the abuses (which the Council of Trent addressed) or was that just an excuse to launch a wholesale questioning of the Faith that had already found roots in his soul? I believe it is the latter.